Greetings. I believe I’ve found a bug. Latest firmware. I’ve had the SG for about 2 weeks.
I’ve been noodling around with wave morphing. As we know, the Wave (PW) slider controls the mod depth of the morph; the toggle switch selects the source.
If the slider is in full down position when engaging the toggle, everything works as expected. If the slider is in full up position when engaging the toggle, neither the slider or toggle affect any change
Thanks to reporting this.
I’m not sure but I think it was already discussed.
As U.D.O. is not scouting the forum to offer support, best thing to do is to email them directly with the steps you found out to reproduce the bug. They usually come back quicker to you through email support.
May not be a bug: if the slider was fully up when the toggle switch was in the “manual” position, then you already applied a significant amount of wave morph offset. This slider value is remembered when you set the toggle switch to “LFO” or “envelope” so the LFO or envelope willnot be able to push the value any higher (only the down cycle of a bipolar LFO will be able to lower the value slightly).
To get the maximum effect, set the toggle to “manual” and the slider to 50%. Then set the toggle to “LFO” and use a bipolar shape.
Thank you for your thoughts.
I still believe it to be a bug as the audible response of the slider and toggle differs depending on their starting positions.
Slider up; toggle ‘Manual’…when the toggle is switched from this starting point, neither the toggle nor movement of the slider have any affect on the sound. Put simply, neither the toggle nor the slider work - at all - when starting from these respective positions.
Slider down; toggle ‘Manual’…when the toggle is switched from this starting point, the toggle and slider movements operate as expected; the most dramatic change with the slider in the top position.
The switch and slider should perform exactly the same regardless of their respective starting positions. Especially in an instrument where the absence of a screen is intrinsic to its design and operation.
Actually a handy feature if you want to skew the blending.
No, not really. The slider position when the toggle is in “manual” mode is fully independent from the slider position when the toggle is in the other two positions. It seems weird because it’s the only control that is like this. This slider actually sets two parameters: manual offset and lfo/envelope mod depth.
Think of it this way: when you’ve got the toggle in “manual” and the slider is up full, you have applied the maximum amount of offset possible to the wave. Eg, if the DDS knob is on sine wave, the sound coming out will be fully a sawtooth. So if you then switch the toggle to another position, there’s no modulation headroom left (if using an envelope or a unipolar LFO); you’ll continue to hear a sawtooth.
I bought Super Gemini about 4 months ago and I don’t even turn it on anymore, I’m tired of hearing the same tones, 99% ambient pad and atmospheres, ambient pad and if you start doing sound design, for a single tone you lose at least 30 minutes…so I can say that SG has sounds more for cinematic and ambient music. I’m still waiting for that update where we have modern sounds, clear presets, these sounds it has are elusive, they are not specific for modern music productions, radio friendly. Maybe I don’t understand how this product works, but you can’t find a masterclass, a good tutorial, everyone I see playing at S.G. only does productions, ambient, nothing modern, Pop, Trap, Organic House or Deep House radio sound.
SG can totally make the sounds you’re after but I agree, it’s either pads or bells in other people’s videos.
I really don’t understand why U. D. O doesn’t make a serious, detailed tutorial, this affects their sales, I’m starting to regret not buying the Arturia PolyBrute 12, I know it doesn’t have the same quality sound as the S. G, but spending a whole day generating and fumbling through those sounds without attack and without energy from the S. G… it’s getting frustrating, especially since you can’t find any valuable instructions in the manual or a video tutorial that teaches us how to make tones, modern sounds, well I spent 2 hours getting an 808 bass sound… In the end I chose to take a one shot sample from splice and put it in the sampler in Ableton… I repeat, very frustrating when I see that it is so well made, quality materials… But the sounds are so faint…In short, S. G is only good for musical genres like Jean Michel Jare, but we are in 2025, musical genres that are breaking the internet have appeared, Phonk, Organic House, we need a more current Sound, not so faint. That doesn’t mean I don’t like Jean Michel Jare’s productions.
Same for me, but I’m hoping Sunny Synths bring out the editor soon.
Same for me. I still have time to return the SG. I decided on the SG for the same reason I buy any synth - the sound. Gemini has a unique tonal character that sounds like nothing else I have…and I have a 3rd Wave that uses the same filters as those on the SG. Both sound very different.
The PB12 is a very impressive synth, but it doesn’t have a unique character that would prompt me to use it over my other analogs. The Prophet 10 has that unique character, but a single LFO, 10-voice analog with a mono output doesn’t justify the lofty price.
So…the Gemini. Great sound, but let’s be honest, many of the issues, confusion and frustration that most of us experience could have easily been avoided by adding a bloody screen to the thing. I understand the concept, but the usability of this instrument is hindered - not helped - by the lack of a screen. I’ve been using synths professionally and otherwise for nearly 50 years. The lack of a screen on an instrument of this complexity was a gross miscalculation.
So, why haven’t I sent it back? As mentioned, it sounds uniquely wonderful, it’s stunningly gorgeous, and the build quality looks like something Lockheed designed.
I’m a bit in this position myself.
I’m sticking to my SG for its undeniable qualities, sound and build, but I’m frustrated by its intrinsic complexity of use and the current impossibility to understand patch.
I also am waiting hopefully The librarian/editor of Sunny synths will be released at some point.
I hope also U.D.O will come back soon with a big firmware update, solving major bugs and offering discussed improvements.
I’m in the same mood. The sound is great, but the controls are so weirdly implemented.
I don’t think an editor or a screen will help. IMHO the basic problem is that every control is mapped to an exponential function. That’s why I think @AparatBlue can’t fine tune its attack’s timing - as I can not too. The low/mid values, for short attack times, are just “mathematically” unreachable, values you should get in the lower-mid part of the fader. Or better: inside this unresponsive first quarter of the course. Basic exponential, in order to set up a segment duration: that’s non-sens. Non-sens replicated to most of the fader and knob. An editor won’t be able to bypass that.
It is such a weird design decision, it defeats the purpose of a lot of controls and limits drastically the sound design capabilities.
This,
and also my feeling the entire physical controls are actually controlling the sound engine via MIDI, which is a rather low resolution per se. If you wnat better resolution for the faders and knobs, you need to play with the MIDI settings, that influence how the SG can be integrated in an external environment.
I do hope U.D.O. will be able at some point to re-implement this differently (full resolution reading of the panel, independently of how output MIDI is configured).
Much of these comments mirror my own feelings, awesome sound, awful interface. Thing is, there are so many buttons available, it could be improved exponentially.
And the lack of a screen again, it didn’t bother me at first, but once you get into deconstructing patches to learn, you can’t! It so handicaps the full potential of this yet to be wonderful beast.
I’m sure a decent firmware/Ui guy could make great use of the led’s to relay patch info to the user, but I fear time may be running out. A SG MkII with a screen would be awesome but a total knife in the back to current owners.
I really hope we see leaps and bounds soon because I’m getting very impatient but, I don’t think I could part with such a love/hate machine! My Jupiter X is also such a machine, but that has a screen, 2 of ‘em!!!
I thought I would chime in with a different perspective.
I agree that presets as starting points can really change a synth’s experience, and it’s also true that advanced sound creation on the Gemini is complex (heck, I’m still learning things after having a Super 6 for a year, and now the Gemini for a year). But I think this synth is worthy of the time and effort.
l’ve owned more than 25 synths from the 80’s forward, including icons like a Jupiter 8, Prophet 10 and modern synths like the Deckard’s Dream, Hydrasynth and Polybrute. I have never been more inspired playing an instrument than when I start moving sliders and twisting knobs on the Super Gemini (though the Polybrute came close, just couldn’t get over the crappy keybed feel).
Synths with display screens and menu buttons can often be much clearer for understanding what you are setting up (and for recreating things). But there’s something about the immediacy and fully tactile nature of the Gemini that appeals to me.
I didn’t spend all my time on it (I recently was busy producing a series on Musicians of Vancouver Island), so when I would come back to it I would sometimes forget how to do things. But as I invest more time in it, I get faster at driving sounds in the direction I want them to go. I’ve also set up a slightly complex MIDI setup so that the Gemini can be both my MIDI controller, but also slaved to a Nome II masterclock for my solo jam setup (Gemini, Tempest, K.O. II).
I think one of the best things you can do to learn this synth is put both layers in Manual mode and explore. Sure, you have to read the manual, or go to Youtube, etc.; there’s a lot to dig into. But having all of the controls exactly reflecting the sounds you are hearing could be indispensable.
I’m not an expert in “Modern Pop” sounds (as that’s not what I gravitate towards), but I feel like those types of sounds are sample or loop based synths, which is definitely not what the Gemini is. It would be cool to have some Modern Pop analogue synth references to refer to, to see if I could drive it that direction. @AparatBlue give me a song reference to go to.
While in no way a “tutorial”, I did make a video Exploring the Super Gemini when I first got it. I’ve been considering the idea of doing more Super Gemini specific content for my channel for a few reasons. Because I love the Super Gemini and want to dive deeper, and I’m aware that the number of videos out there are limited, but also because we’re considering a move back to Victoria, and I would be losing my full production studio and downsizing my collection and productions.
Let me know what interest there might be, or what types of things you would like to see covered. Maybe I could schedule a live-stream for a convenient time.
Cheers
Here’s a reference song: Purple Disco Machine & Sophie and the Giants - In The Dark (Official Music Video).
I would also like to learn to make an 808 bass for trap, a Slap House Bass and with reproducing a “log drum”, for the Amapiano genre, I struggled the most :)), I tried with S. G. but I got tired, I couldn’t reproduce any of these and they didn’t sound like the ones in the hit songs …
This was all SG. Not the usual ambient stuff you tend to hear
Most of the UDO stuff I see posted is pretty ‘conventional’, not just pads and ambient. So I’m a bit confused on that aspect. But one thing we all agree on is the synths need much better support for patches.
At bare minimum - an LED to signal when a control is in the patches original position. That won’t help with the Mod Matrix but it would still go a long way.
While we’re at it, also have a way to the LEDs for used patch/performance slots to show which are full and which are empty.
I totally agree that the envelope curves don’t have enough ‘room at the ends’ as they are, they could almost just be on/off switches the end slopes are so steep.