Well this article is only speculating ; not one sound or song example…
Not keen at all about MPE or MicroTuning and the “potential” opportunities ; I’m already struggling to play decently without to having take care off pressure per finger 
To me it’s similar to the need of having an endless matrix modulation for a synth ; I have never heard any song which really takes of advantage of it with regards to the sounds it would have created…
I’m still ready to change my mind about those topics, off course.
Hi @kiolbo - this album is referenced in the article, at least: https://youtu.be/R-5koLtMy98?si=ClKuhT2D8-0qc-7c I’ve not listened to it it before, but am now! Definitely some interesting tunings going on, that are integral to the quality/effect of the music.
It’s just nice to have these opportunities available once you’re ready to explore them, I reckon, they shouldn’t get in the way otherwise.
(I’m also at a very basic level with my playing, but I think MPE helps, in fact, because I can play very simple things and instead of worrying about virtuosity or anything just focus on connecting with the sound, which a bit of added ‘expression’ can help with.)
Bump for this, alternate tunning support would be awesome
@DDS please record and upvote this thank you
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Microtuning scales would be incredible and it would be something special that sets the UDO apart from most other polys… Please developers read this, and have a look at this topic , its really something cool and opens many new sonic territories!
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microtuning is a question of tonality rather than sound, and if you’ve listened to any non-Western music you have surely heard non-12TET pieces, and that are not just “taking advantage” but are built on these tonal systems that predate what Western music standardised.
Even in Western music it is fairly common to use alternate temperaments, and you can look in youtube for videos of classical pieces played on pianos tuned with different historic temperings to hear (and feel) the difference it can make to a piece of music. sometimes it is very subtle but can still end up making s profiund difference to the impact of a piece.
In popular electronic music, listen to Aphex Twin from the last decades and you’ll hear a lot of alternate tunings - in fact, when he was asked as a prominent synth enthusiast if he likes the Super 6 he said he has no interest in any synth that can’t do microtuning (so come on, George, get Richard on it!)
sure, only a quite small fraction of Western musicians would care to utilise the possibilities of microtuning but it’s silly to play it down as a mere “potential” when 12TET is still a fairly recent system; and while it has its advantages in modulating between keys, many would consider it to be inherently harmonically flawed as a tonal system.
so even if it isn’t for you, I invite you, for the enrichment of music and joy of musicians and synthesists, to support our cause and give your vote for progress!
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This is a fascinating discussion thanks for taking your time here. I think that micro tuning abilities are definitely something that is on the road map for all UDO products. Many questions around how, with a “no screen” UI this is possible but I’m sure it is. What are the best examples of selectable alternate tunings on production analog synths?
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As far as making a shift function on the Super 6 for it, I suppose if there was room on the memory you could have up to 5 alternate tunings on the machine, and use Shift + Mode (on arpeggiator) to scroll through the 5 tunings, assuming there is no function already tied to shift + Mode that I don’t know about. I’m not knowledgeable or particularly invested in microtuning myself but I presume that’d be enough for an average performance.
@udo-audio Really glad this is somewhere down the road!
My advice would be to look at implementing MTS - midi tuning standard - as it is already an industry standard (though sadly under-used thus far).
There is info on the subject here:
The MIDI Tuning Standard is an ultra-high-resolution specification for microtuning MIDI instruments agreed upon by the MIDI Manufacturers Association, and was developed by visionary microtonal music composers Robert Rich and Carter Scholz. The standard includes both Bulk Dump and Single Note microtuning with a resolution of 0.0061 cent, which essentially divides the octave into 196,608 equal parts. It remains among the best and most flexible real-time microtuning formats available today.
The Dave Smith synths apparently implement it. It would happen via sys-ex, which might afterall be best for something as potentially complex as this. Though it would be cool to have some alternate tunings stored, as @RayQ mentioned. Perhaps it could indeed be a shift mode, and the action be something like loading sequences. It might be nice to be able to tune by ear on the machine itself, which could be accomplished using the mod amount knob, perhaps, similar to modulation - with latest key pressed being the one that is actively tuning. Not sure, but the korg mini and monologues offer onboard microtuning. They load the .scl and .kbm files mentioned in the linked article, also (important to note the necessity of keyboard mapping for a proper implementation).
Regardless, Midi Tuning Standard would look to be the way to go, the specifications are available on their website.
Thanks so much for looking into this, it could make the world of difference!
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Has anyone gotten microtuning to work via MPE? My super 6 desktop is ignoring channel pitch bend messages on all channels but 1. Pitch bend messages on channel 1 are bending the pitch of all notes on all channels. If someone has found a workaround that they can share I would appreciate it.
Yes.
There are several steps and things to make sure of:
Starting in Ableton using the ‘External Instrument Device’:
- Your MIDI To is set to SUPER-6 and the Channel selection is ‘MPE’
- Use the Max For Live Device from ODDSound (you have to copy it into your Library)
- See Page 9 of https://oddsound.com/dl/ODDSound_MTS_ESP_Suite_MIDI_Client_Manual.pdf
- That M4L Device is pretty much default using the MIDI PB settings
On your Super-6:
- Make sure you’re on the latest firmware that actually supports MPE
- Load a patch you want
- Hit Shift, then G [MPE]
- Look at Patch Keys 1, 2, 3 (W1, W2, W3)
- If any of those keys are blinking, then click them once so they are SOLID
- Then press Shift again
You’re Done!
If you’re not getting any sound (make sure you’re not in local mode) and make sure you’re getting MIDI to and sound from the device in a simple normal workflow first.
Just Intonation, Pythagorean, etc, but essentially, you could just have ‘User Scales’ and just as you can right now detune the whole synth by little steps, the ability to do this per Key of the 12 tone scale… That way you can do it as you like! For example I would keep C and G as they are and pitch down the E by -14 and the Eflat by +14 and that gives me already just intonation basics when playing in C… You can make it real easy this way! Just the function to set each note of the 12 tone scale as you like it, and we can do whatever we want then… Hope I explain myself easily? You could look at how Logic Pro does it, they have something called ‘User Scale’ in the ‘Tuning’ menu under Project Settings. I think it would be cool to either be able to save this in the Patch, but the possibility to have it as a Global setting would be even better so you can switch patches and not loose it again…
Could it not be simply possible to add scala files in a dedicated folder next to patches and have these used to define micro tunings used at boot, or maybe cycle through each scale defined in each scala file present in the folder on a button combo?
To complete my idea:
SHIFT + H / W16 seems free and could enter a choice of one of max 8 of microtuning/temperament/scale scl files, selected via the buttons 1-8, which LED would lit up when entering the global scale choice, telling the user which one of the (max) 8 scales is currently used/selected.
The scl files would be in a "scales" folder next to the "waves", "patches" and "performances" ones.
If no folder or (correct) scl files are to be found, the current usual 12ET would be the default (no 1-8 LED lit).
This could be a performance parameter if the hardware/software allows it, but for me that could be a global setting in its first implementation (better this than nothing).
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As per UDO’s support: Microtuning via MPE is not supported as the channel pitch bend message is set to 0 when a new note is triggered. It’s on their feature request list but they could not commit to when it would be implemented.
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Ah, explains why I couldn’t get it to work with the Live Microtuning device.
The Korg Minilogue XD (not sure if OG has it) has a very solid microtuning implementation. Possible also the Prologue, but I’m not sure. The minilogue has on-device scale creation, 10 scales can be saved on the device, with more loaded/exported via external app. You can do both octave tunings, which are tunings for the octave repeated up and down the entire range, and full-scale tunings for every note. In general the microtuning features are very easy to use and are saved on a per-patch basis.
I really wish the Super 6 also supported microtuning, it would greatly benefit from it. Currently, it’s the only one of my three synths (other being Korg Minilogue XD and Novation Peak) that doesn’t support any kind of microtuning. It’s something I expect in a modern synth.
On my Minimoog, I can choose my microtuning at startup (only 2 options, so sometimes you have to modify the files with Midi sysex), and on my Prophet 10 there is a basic menu with 10 possible tunings… super efficient! The more recent option on the OP-XY with a menu of cent drifts for each semitone is super practical on the road, but not applicable without a screen and less necessary for a machine that often crosses a computer! For my super 6, sending my scala files to a specific folder and then being able to choose the tuning with a combination of keys would be great. And please do a general tuning, not something to adjust in each patch… for my use in any case, it would be great! Thanks, fingers crossed that it happens quickly, with Ableton 12 which manages it natively, there’s really only my UDO that doesn’t follow its little friends on my differently tuned projects. 
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I truely hope the scala file in a folder to be chosen with a combo will be the way this will be implemented.
And I truely hope this will be added in a near future to all the U.D.O synths :-).
Let’s hope this has the full attention of George and the team.
Microtuning would be great!
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