Sysex request/dump documentation required to add UDO Super 6 to free Sysex Librarian

Hi all, the MIDI implementation document refers to the Udo web-site for details on the sysex specification. As I’d like to add the Super 6 to my self-written, free, and open source Sysex Librarian called the KnobKraft Orm, I was looking for that document (even if my Super 6 is not ordered yet, still trying to convince me that there is enough space for it in my home studio).

Has anybody found that documentation?

BTW, if we find it I am happy to have testers when the Super 6 is implemented. I support a list of synths by now. Have a look at GitHub - christofmuc/KnobKraft-orm: The KnobKraft Orm - The free modern cross-platform MIDI Sysex Librarian if you llike.

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Still nobody? I guess the documentation is not out yet? Would the UDO folks read the forum, else somebody interested and owning a synth already could open a support ticket with this request :slight_smile: I don’t want to as I still haven’t got one. Finger is on the trigger though, if the blue one would be available right now…

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Maybe you should add a request to the faq at Submit a request – UDO Audio Support ?

If you need any testing I´d be happy to help out.

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Ok, will do. I didn’t feel eligible not owning one right now, but I’ll give it a go!

They came back to me and promised to get the improved documentation out by end of Q1, so there is hope!

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Any updates here? Would love to test if you’ve got one in the works!

No, I think the sysex documentation never happened. At least, the current manual mentions nothing about it. Their process is using the USB drive feature, but I don’t think this is as handy as a good librarian.

@kris It’s unfortunate that there is still no officially released documentation on this… I love UDO and I love the Super 6 but it seems they’re not hot on supporting this… Company policy I suppose :person_shrugging:
In any case, I had an idea, and I wonder if it would work… it’s tedious, but - if I were to dump the sysex message from the Init patch, and then change each setting one by one, dump that, and compare the output with a simple diff utility. Perhaps then I could map which part of the message corresponds to which setting? I’ve never actually “hacked” sysex so I’m not sure this would work… your thoughts?

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@Spyes Oh, given that they have documented all NRPN messages to change the individual synth parameters, reverse engineering the format could be done rather easily, if there is no funky encoding/compression involved. But it seems to me the UDO super 6 does not use sysex at all, but rather the USB drive mode to expose the data as files to the computer. So the whole request patch/send patch cycle a Librarian software would like to do is not possible.

And from my experience with Roland devices that do this - you cannot just update the data on the drive while e.g. playing as you can with sysex, but have to switch the synth into a special mode and then have to switch out of it again before resuming playing. Not near the same smooth experience as sending sysex via MIDI.

But then again, I don’t own a super 6 (yet), so I cannot confirm if this is the case. In total, somewhat disappointing as I would think sysex is still the best way to manage patches in any synth.

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@kris Very interesting! I was trying to get a sysex dump into MIDI-OX but it wasn’t working, then went down the rabbit hole of finding out the whole MIDI-OUT from USB wasn’t working (for me at least). I’m not sure though, at least going by the documentation it seems that there is a way to get a sysex dump directly from the S6, specifically you press the SHIFT button and then the corresponding dump switch (the D bank button on the desktop version). But again - couldn’t see any dump going into MIDI-OX, but that might be something faulty on my end.

Edit: I was able to get MIDI OUT working by changing the TX/RX E and P options. However, still unable to get sysex dump. Though I went over the manual again and I must have misread it the first time, it says -
“This option allows you to dump the currently selected patch via
MIDI as a SysEx file”
So I’m not sure how to receive this SysEx file…

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I’d be curious to find out if there was going to be a Sysex spec as well.

I’m thinking of making a hardware “helper” device for my main synths (Super 6 included). I’m currently researching what kind of access to settings I can get.

I’d like to be able to request and grab any (or all) current settings via Sysex.

Sound settings of course but things like patch names or waveform info could be useful too.

Personal project for now.

If you can get a dump it’s completely possible to reverse engineer it. There are examples of this (someone(s) reverse engineered the Elektron Analog Rytm Sysex for example).

Thanks, I’ll look it up, sounds interesting!
Yeah, I played around with a couple of other synths I have, and was able to very quickly reverse engineer them (just for the hell of it, nothing esoteric)

Problem is… the Super 6 as of this writing does NOT dump Sysex info :frowning: There is technically a DUMP button and it is documented, but when I asked about it they said it’s still not implemented.

This is definitely the No. 1 feature I’m hoping we’ll see in the next firmware update as I know myself and several other, much smarter people, are already eager to start creating an editor/viewer/librarian.

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