UDO new firmware - bugs & first experiences w MPE

I’ve been testing the MPE, doesn’t seem quite there yet.
Roli Rise V1 via Ableton Live 11.

I’ve already encountered the following bugs:

1.playing a lot of notes and modulation = stuck notes

  1. when i play multiple notes, and slide my hand up and down, the pitch behaviour will start to have some kind of laterncy, whereby the falling notes drop almost a second after i physically did so, and the notes will sustain for the same amount of time after i lift my hand. It seems to be related to the amount of polyphonic information (more equals longer latency.
    Anything above two notes creates a response delay of over half a second, doubling with every note.

  2. When previous aftertouch note on mpe was high, the next time you play the note on the super 6 keys, it will always have a high AT value, regardless of pressing hard or soft. Pressing hard will only increase the amount lastly played by the mpe.
    Playing the same note softly on the mpe keyboard will result in a normal note when played on the keyboard itself again
    This is per-note so if you play the patch from the keyboard after that, the one note will have the aftertouch effect (eg vibrato) every time.

This might just be ineviteable, it’s not an issue if you only use the MPE controller to play notes.

  1. There is significant stepping in the pitchbending. The glide amount needs to be at full value to be almost inaudible, though you can still hear it if you focus. lowering the glide sensitivity just a little bit in the Rise Dashboard, and it sounds like a glissando.

Aftertouch sensitivity is very different, but that’s maybe a specific Roli Rise-thing, also initial velocity values will be very different, things will sound completely different and need to be readjusted a lot for translating on an MPE controller. Also probably just the nature of the beast, not an issue.

Further experimentation: Slide on the rise is by default cc74. In the manual it says slide would be affecting the exp/cv source in the mod matrix. this is not the case. Rather, cc 74 affects the filter cutof, and indeed the cc74 has filter cutoff as mod destination.

The strange thing is, when modulating the cc74, and thus cutoff, it sounds correct and polyphonic. however, if i set the cc to 4, which is listed as ‘foot controller’, i can use the cv/exp source in the mod matrix. however, if i now route that to the filter cutof, the sound is very glitchy and stepped, could be the 127 values of classic midi, but it seems even more extreme and warbly, almost like a fast square lfo. as if the synth is constantly scanning for the value, but only plays it for half the cycle and then resets to zero on the mirror of the pulse. sounds very nasty and digital, like a sample & hold modulation.

As is, going through the mod matrix with slide is not an option. Works fine when directly setting the slide cc to a parameter, like cutoff cc74 or resonance, CC71

When the seaboard rise is set to relative unipolar, only half of the modulation range is accessible relative bpolar, your value will be halfway higher and you can go up or down.

Maybe in a future update there could be a setting for either unipolar or bipolar, where one can use the full range, and the other has an offset, so a neutral (Zero note has the same initial value (zero instead of halfway up)

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Keyboard version

On every fifth keystroke the volume is way much higher.

Cannot use the synth :frowning:

Temp update: restart the synth. and it was normal.

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my Keyboard version shows up the old volume bug again. this was fixed in my v0.27 witch i had installed before.
The synth cant be used in my setup with this bug. you never know when the synth makes big volume peeks. and i have fear to crack my monitors up. I ever have my volume a little bit under the 0DB mark on the Master Volume Pot. But now its realy dangerous to play with it.
Please fix this ?
Is it posible to jump back to the 0.27 ? i saved the bin file before i updated my S6.

As i heard from the UDO Support. It´s not a bug , its a feature. They add 6DB on top of the VCA.
Now we have to reprogram all patches and take the VCA FAder down.

This is a Important Info you have to know, so does UDO has no fear that some People Brun the Speakers or Monitors … cant understand this realy!!!

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New Bug: once you are in MPE mode, Binaural button becomes unresponsive (pressing it wil not disable the led or binaural mode.) binaural is turned on automatically when in MPE mode, 12 mode voice is not possible.

Also, a power cycle does not retain that mpe mode was on in a patch.

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As MPE is “part of the patch”, you would need to save the patch in order for the setting to survive a power cycle. I personally would prefer a global toggle, but I understand the choice.

I can confirm the binaural button bug.

It sounds absolutely amazing with the Seaboard. Great work!!

So, no one else is having the delayed voices and response when using a Seaboard/Live11 setup?
I’ve reduced the number of voices to 6, It’s a bit better now. But as soon as i slide up or down 4 or more voices, it starts to delay here.

Still, that’s not really a playing style i use often in a piece of music, but it’d be great to have the MPE working as good and responsive as possible.

Same setup works fine with other mpe capable hardware or vst’s

I know I replied to you about this on another forum saying that I couldnt reproduce this with a different MPE setup not involving Live 11, but since then I was trying again and I did manage to experience a delay when pressing and manipulating a lot of notes at the same time. However I dont really know what changed in my setup compared to my initial try, the delay did not seem as pronounced as you initially described, and its incredibly warm here at the moment so I dont know if I’m making any mistakes in my thinking.

As for the lack of other people reporting the same thing, I get the idea that not many people have tried MPE with this synth yet, so the chances are maybe nobody else with the same sort of Live-based setup as you has tried it or spoken about it here or elsewhere.

Would anyone mind posting a breakdown of how to set the MPE up for S6 in Ableton 11? I have used MPE a number of times without S6 but I find I cannot get it working properly with S6 (with Linnstrument).

Pressing multiple notes gives me weird noise and jolting between notes rather than simultaneous play. Not sure what I am doing wrong here.

Is Ableton any good with MPE at all ? I keep hearing it’s not. Isn’t MPE still a recent feature in ableton?
I’m using Samplitude and had no delay issue with the super6 MPE , neither with other instruments I have set up with my linnstrument

but I am curious about other platforms. I hear Bitwig is a good example of nice MPE implementation.

Likely it’s not. I only use mpe for direct playing, not really manipulating or recording the midi data. I tried setting up a per Midi channel routing like i used to do before Live 11 supported mpe, and got the same results, unfortunately. I will try reaper sometime in the future to rule out Live 11 as the culprit. I wish i had a system to route the mpe Midi data to a Midi out port directly without a DAW.

Midi routing software does exist. I havent used any for years so my personal experience is lacking, but here is an example of a forum thread where people discuss a few options:

For mac there is this one and maybe a few others:

I will try Live 11 with MPE at some point in the coming days due to the number of people asking. I prefer to do everything in hardware, or if using a DAW to use Bitwig which I am more familiar with, but I will try to stumble around Live 11 just to see how it works for me and whether I can provide any tips. I wouldnt describe MPE support in Live as new any more since Live 11 where it was added came out 18 months ago.

Since you have a Linnstrument which has midi din output you could connect it directly to the Super 6 in order to rule out any Live-related issue causing your problem.

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I’m running my Linnstrument into a MioXM and into the Super 6 via DIN. Zero problems, zero latency.

I have also confirmed that Super 6 listens to all 16 channels (well, minus channel 1) when in MPE mode, so I set up a MIDI filter on the MioXM so it only hears channels 2-7, which allows me to control other synths with the other split of the Linnstrument. Ideally, eventually you’ll be able to do that on the Super 6 itself.

I’m very happy with the MPE update so far. Eventually I’d like to be able to assign the Y axis to other things, but of course the filter alone is great fun.